Volkswagen Phaeton Picture Thread

[CarGuy]

The only reason that I think rob has so much faith in VW is because of the Bugatti Veyron. It only took them 5 years to build it. Rob are u really that moonstruck?

[SDNR]

The thing is Marcus, VWs traditional competitors: Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc., are all offering excellent products that VW cannot match on price -- those Asian car makers are continually moving the bar higher and higher -- middle-market cars today have the specs of luxury cars of a decade ago -- VW is only responding to market forces -- I am not denying that they have some problems to overcome, but I'm just not so adamant that they will never be taken seriously as the producer of very fine luxury vehicles.

[SDNR]

Originally Posted by CarGuy

The only reason that I think rob has so much faith in VW is because of the Bugatti Veyron. It only took them 5 years to build it. Rob are u really that moonstruck?

CarGuy, the thing is, I recognize excellence when I see it. The Phaeton was superior to the Mercedes W220 in many ways when it was launched -- I would suggest you are judging the product entirely by your preconceptions of its badge.

[Merc1]

Originally Posted by Rob

The thing is Marcus, VWs traditional competitors: Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc., are all offering excellent products that VW cannot match on price -- those Asian car makers are continually moving the bar higher and higher -- middle-market cars today have the specs of luxury cars of a decade ago -- VW is only responding to market forces -- I am not denying that they have some problems to overcome, but I'm just not so adamant that they will never be taken seriously as the producer of very fine luxury vehicles.

I see what you're saying, but I think VW can make it by building what I stated earlier, for a smaller price premium than they're asking now. For instance a loaded Camry or Accord goes for about 28-30K, but a loaded Passat goes for 38K, that is simply too much of a premium. Now if they could shrink that premium down to 4-6K instead of 8-10K they'd sell a lot more Passats, IMO. The Jetta's pricing is even more out of whack with its competitors. We all know that VW can build a luxury car, but in doing so what becomes of Audi? It would be like Mercedes trying to build luxury Smarts. I just don't see the point of it when they've got Audi, who is making leaps and bounds daily.

One mintue I think VW is going the route I have suggest, as they are redesigning the Golf/Rabbit to be cheaper, but then there is still talk of another Phaeton and think I think they're still lost. It seems they're going to try to be all things to all people, a "peoples" car. Fine and nice, but a 70K VW just ain't gonna sell, at least not here in the U.S. with VW's current crummy dealers and non-luxury car experience.

M

[SDNR]

Part of the problem is the outrageous cost of producing their cars in Germany. Do they assemble the Passats in the US?

[Merc1]

Originally Posted by Rob

Part of the problem is the outrageous cost of producing their cars in Germany. Do they assemble the Passats in the US?

Nope, that is why I say they need to do a factory here again. The right way this time. The last effort was an utter failure. Building the Jetta and all its platform mates here would be a smart move. The Passat too.

M

[SDNR]

Originally Posted by Merc1

Nope, that is why I say they need to do a factory here again.
M

Oh, you did too ...sorry

[Mr. M]

Originally Posted by CarGuy

Well my point is basically that I always felt like VW had gotten cocky trying to slip under the radar a car very similar to the A8 and hopefully get some sales going from ignorant idiot bastards that are loyal to the brand and don't know and/or don't pay attention to the outside world(competition, VW merging etc)

PS. Mark I noticed that in ur all stars u included the GT500KR (lmao) care to comment?

I think having extensive experience in both the Phaeton and the A8, I can comment well here.

The Phaeton is not a similar car to the A8. It may look a little like the A8, and it may have some buttons that look like they came from the A8, but there are overwhelming differences between the two cars that set them apart.

For instance, the Phaeton's steel body is one of the most rigid in the world - 40,000Nm of tensile strength if I recall correctly - a figure that outstrips even that of the Phantom. The A8 on the other hand uses the Audi Space Frame, one of the few cars in the world employing a full aluminium chassis.

Next, the Phaeton's upholstery is holstered by Poltrona Frau, a well respected Italian leather manufacturer. I don't know where the A8 gets its leather. The Phaeton also shares more electronics than the Bentley Continental Range rather than the A8 - look at the computer for instance.

I am not a loyal fan of VW - but I was made one after seeing the Phaeton. The Phaeton does not rely on its fans to sell, it creates new fans everytime. See VW Vortex forums, the Phaeton owners there swear by their cars, and so do I. It's an understatement to say that the Phaeton is a stunning achievement.

So what it can't sell? Let those who can't appreciate it for what is, lose out on all the fun.

Originally Posted by Rob

The thing is Marcus, VWs traditional competitors: Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc., are all offering excellent products that VW cannot match on price -- those Asian car makers are continually moving the bar higher and higher -- middle-market cars today have the specs of luxury cars of a decade ago -- VW is only responding to market forces -- I am not denying that they have some problems to overcome, but I'm just not so adamant that they will never be taken seriously as the producer of very fine luxury vehicles.

It's rising production costs against value-addedness here. While I do think the Phaeton is a viable option for VW to go upmarket, why not put some of its inventions on the Phaeton into the Passat and Golf for instance, so that its price can be justified? Maybe that'd work.

Originally Posted by Merc1

Nope, that is why I say they need to do a factory here again. The right way this time. The last effort was an utter failure. Building the Jetta and all its platform mates here would be a smart move. The Passat too.

M

Yes, a factory in the US, what are they waiting for?!