donau

Great post/thread Rob!

Here's one case where a bunch of people who witnessed the Ian Smith/Robert Mugabe/Joshua Nkomo disaster in the mid 70's could say: "I told you so....."

Obviously there have been other, more succesful transfers of rule in the past...

But this one was a disaster from the beginning with all kinds of warning signs as time went on. The Fifth Brigade in the early 80's being one example....

We'll just see what kind of a catastrophe this all will end up in...

chonkoa

Only a mad man will think the way he does.
I am sure he is in good company with Robert Mugabe.
Zimbabwe used to be such a lovely place, it is amazing how a delusional leadership can run a country to the ground.

far2000

as a south african citizen i believe i have 2 respond 2 ure assesment of south africaa, every country has its problems, if u did research crime is high in certain areas and not the WHOLE Country as u paint it 2 be, it has a high HIV Rate but they are working on it, and most importatantly it has the most stable economy and is practicing TRue decocracy unlike the rest of africa....
why dont u visit s.africa and see the what the country has 2 offer b4 judging it, every year brings in record percentages of tourists, we have staged the cricket, Rugby, World cups, F1 Racing, A1 Racing and 2 my knowledge there has not been 1 deadly incident happening 2 a spectator/Sportsmen..We will be hosting the 2010 Soccer world cup, do u think people would come here if they thought like u did?????????????? would we be hosting such events....???

You talk about corruption in government..are u saying countries like USA etc,and other first world countries dont have corruption??? just look how much USA Has lost in Iraq through crooked americans......!!!

We have come out of a difficult period and i believe we are making huge strides 2 better ourselves and our neighbours,...

wat do u expect us 2 do about zimbabwe??? We do not condone an American/British Doctrine of ousting leaderships, but in democracy 4 the sake of peoople...america wants 2 sanction zimbabwe, south africa will neva stand 4 it as the people would suffer not the government..remember Mugabe was elected by its people, and we can only hope and pray that some1 else will take over......

As i said every country has problems, but do not read and preach every bad item u hear in news, remember the only good news 2day is bad news in the media industrty......

btw: go ask every American where his BMW 3 series Comes from.... , or every new C cLASS......

nO HARD FEElings but next time try and be as partial as possible......



Farouk

Centurion

^^
Farouk, we are not condemning South Africa. Actually I'm very impressed by it's economic development. It's one of the few countries who have during the latest 50 years taken big steps out of poverty. It's very beautiful too, I've been stunned my some of the locations I've seen on TV.

Despite that I think that SA consist of two worlds. One is very similar to the western world i.e Johannesburg and Cape Town which are cities developing at a fast rate. Then there is the repressed world with problems like poverty, crime and HIV. They never talk or show that side in the media.

Then again you can't improve the whole country at once. But personally I hope that the government invests in less developed areas in the country, and try to bring them up to the same level as Cape town.

vedjo01

It´s a sad fact that we live in a world where this kind of things can happen And even worst fact is that is going to happen for a very long time from now untill..I wish I now untill when..

far2000

ofcourse, i understand where u coming from and respect ure partialness, guess some people only look at the negative aspects and neva bother 2 mention the positives....... i think u would definitely enjoy a holiday down here Luw..

SDNR

Thank you for your passionate reply Farouk, I do appreciate it ....but I must say, I am slightly agitated that you think I only ever look at the negative aspects ....that is not true, but Africa faces so many big problems, it is important to discuss them.

I am basing my opinions purely on what I have read and heard from South Africans themselves -- there was nothing I said in my previous post which is not true ....so I do not understand why you have taken such offense.

SA has the highest murder rate in the world.

Although Nelson Mandela is widely regarded around the world as a man of peace, why on earth did his government spend $US 9.75 billion on weapons when so many millions of people are dying from AIDS and other diseases ...and yet South Africa continues to expect charity from the west and have its debts wiped. President Mbeki continues to deny there is a link between HIV and the AIDS virus ...so the disease is totally out of control.


Also, you say Mugabe was elected -- are you serious? ......those "elections" were totally corrupt.

Here is an article written by a former member of the ANC.

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As for your comments pointing to the United States as some kind of example of everything that is evil and corrupt; that seems to have become the automatic, knee-jerk response for anyone being questioned on such issues these days .......but still, more people emigrate to the US than any other country on earth ......so it can't be all bad eh.


I would suggest that by the end of this century, most of Asia will have first world living standards for the vast majority of its people. Provided the Middle East does not fall to fundamentalist extremists, it too will be an extremely prosperous part of the world with a very high standard of living. But most of Africa will almost certainly still be third world by 2100.

African nations will continue to rely heavily on western charity to feed their people, tribal conflict and corruption will continue to make it impossible for positive change, and the misery of poverty and disease will still be the daily reality for millions of ordinary Africans -- it doesn't have to be like this ...that is the biggest tragedy of all.

SDNR

Here is another very interesting article.


African hearts of bronze

No-one, not even our many readers who themselves have hearts of bronze, can deny the emotive effect of Geldof’s and Bono’s inspired concerts in aid of the fight to combat hunger in the world’s poor countries, with an emphasis towards Africa. It is clear that campaigns like ‘Make Hunger History’ work, and work splendidly, in raising millions of pounds or dollars in the richer countries. My problem is my uncertainty about who actually receives the money so lavishly spent by the G8 (for example), in regular payments to third world countries. Who benefits in poor countries when the rest of the world forgives them their debts, and, especially, how does it come about that the Daimler-Benz corporation sells so many hundreds of top-of-the-range limos to the most poverty-stricken states in Africa?


Bob Geldof dismisses the last question with an urge ‘not to dwell on the corruption thing’. Aidan Hartley, an African journalist and humanitarian, has recently dwelt on the corruption thing in a big way. In a hard-hitting article, he admitted that Mao Tse-tung had 23 Mercedes, that the Queen of England has at least one, whereas Kim Jong II owns dozens, mostly filled to the roof-rack with unopened bottles of brandy. But, says Hartley, there is one man who does more than anyone else to ensure that African leaders get to possess top-of-the-range Mercs, and that man is Bob Geldof.

The ‘WaBenzi’ is the African term for the Big People. These are the men who since the end of colonialism in Africa have hi-jacked their own states. After having a very good time indeed with at least six Marshall Plan’s worth of aid, Africa is poorer today than twenty-five years ago, whereas the WaBenzi (African people in power with Mercedes-Benz motorcars) always find room for more. In Zimbabwe, millions of people are starving, and three thousand per week die of aids. Life expectancy has dropped to 35 years. Dear trusting Britain gave Zimbabwe £30 million in aid last year, and Britain is only one of many donors. Comrade Dr. Mugabe recently told his political party’s annual bash that he condemns ‘arrogant flamboyance and wastefulness: a dozen Mercedes-Benz cars to one life, hideously huge residencies, strange appetites that can only be appeased by foreign dishes, high immorality and lust!’ Yet Dr Mugabe owns a Mercedes 600L, a long-wheelbase limousine with 7 litre V12 engine, twenty-one feet long. It comes without extras at a cool £93,090 give or take a quid or two. The President of Zimbabwe’s little toy is armour-plated, to withstand AK-47 bullets, grenades, and landmines. I wonder why? The presidential garage also has a fleet of lesser Mercedes S320s and E240s for his wife, vice-presidents and ministers. Please note that Dr Mugabe, who took power in an originally British colonial administration, does not go for the more traditional British cars, like Rolls-Royce or Jaguar. They would ‘smell of imperialism’.

The craze for Mercs began in the Sixties, as Macmillan’s ‘Wind of Change’ began sweeping Africa. Idi Amin kept the heads of his enemies in the freezer and three 600 Pullman, 6.3-litre V8s in the carpool. Emperor Bokassa bought more. Zaire’s Sese Seko Mobutu kept six at his summerhouse at Lake Kivu. Not to be outdone, Liberia’s Sergeant Samuel Doe bought 60.

Since those days Africa has seen more than 160 coups, 26 bloody wars, and an estimated seven million dead in them. But the Mercedes-Benz still arrives by the dozen. This is not to put the blame on the manufacturing company Daimler-Benz. Until the Sixties they were doing very nicely thank you in the States and Canada, most parts of Europe and the East. Their superb marketing really took off however in Africa, with the end of the colonies, and who can blame the directors or their shareholders?

Another instance is Malawi, where there have been ‘Benz-aid’ scandals. In 200 Bukili Muluzi was much praised by Europeans as an exemplary governor. Britain promised to increase aid to Malawi from nearly £31 million to £52.4 million, obviously to help the 65% of Malawians struggling to exist on less than 65 pence a day. Malawi’s government instantly celebrated this showering of gilt by ordering thirty-nine S-Class Mercedes. Ms. Clare Short, then British international development secretary later explained (after the fuss broke out) that aid would not after all go to Malawi, and added that money siphoned off from Britain’s donation to buy the luxury cars had in fact come from another country’s aid . . .

In 2004 the King of Swaziland neglected Mercedes and got himself a £264,000 Maybach for himself ‘plus a fleet of BMWs for each of his ten wives, and three virginal fiancées selected annually at the football stadium’. This King’s father had 50 wives, but Mr Hartley does not mention their tastes in cars. This year in May the present King changed his mind and bought a new S600L limousine. Of the fourteen million pounds Swaziland gets in foreign aid, nine million goes on parties, balls, picnics – and cars. 70% of Swazis live in conditions of absolute poverty.

South Africa is not exempt from WaBenzis either. Nelson Mandela was offered one and accepted. In 2001 ‘the ANC chief whip Tony Yengeni was charged and later jailed for accepting a Mercedes ML320 at a 48% discount in return for lobbying on behalf of Daimler/Chrysler companies in the European Aeronautic Defence and Space consortium’. President Thabo Mbeki was given an armoured S600L limo ‘for a test drive’, but he kept it for six months until the Yengeni scandal broke.

The original home of the WaBenzi was Kenya. In December 2002 Mwai Kibaki swept to power heading his NARC coalition on an anti-corruption ticket. ‘Corruption will now cease to be a way of life in Kenya,’ he promised. The first law Kibaki’s new parliament passed gave its members a 172% salary increase. Kenya’s MPs now earn around nine thousand pounds more than British MPs. Seven of the thirty-two Mercedes immediately bought ‘for the government’ belong to the President. One hopes Mercedes-Benz springs are damned good because Kenya boasts the most dilapidated roads in Africa, while the Transport Minister drives an S500. In Kenya the average annual per capita wage is £210. Kenya’s problems with poverty were dramatically mentioned during the recent ‘Make Poverty History’ campaign launched by the pop singers. The courageous British High Commissioner to Nairobi alludes to the fact that around £550 million in aid has been stolen by Kibaki’s government in these last two years. Kenyan ministers responded to this accusation by laughing that the British envoy was a bloody white colonialist whom nobody need listen to. Britain by the way is the ‘nasty former colonial power that has just increased aid massively from £30.5 million per annum to £50 million’.

It seems someone needs to take a hammer and get to work on the heads of ministers in many or most of the richer countries, as well as those of very well intentioned people like Bob Geldof and Co. More aid means more Mercedes Nigeria’s Obasanjo and Libya’s Gaddafi ‘have motorcades that extend a mile long’. Germany gives the East African Union €8 million for the regional organisation’s secretariat in Arusha. Hartley claims this organisation’s car-park is jammed with Mercedes. A recent Merril Lynch report ‘estimates there are 100,000 Africans today who own £380billion in wealth: At the same time more than 300 million other Africans subsist on 50 pence a day’
Incidentally, it was not always like this. Thomas Sankara was the Burkina Faso president ‘who forced his ministers to swap their Mercedes for Renault 5s.’ He was overthrown and executed in 1987 by Blaise Capaore, still in power today. Both European countries and charity organisations throw billions in aid at Africa, almost all of which simply fuels ‘a new renaissance in corruption’. Meanwhile the NGOs refuse to do anything about it because it seems not to be a priority. It is the Western multi-nationals which get the blame. Charities especially appear to be managed by anti-globalisation activists who ‘just cannot bear’ any private enterprise. Mr Hartley wonders if these people would actually prefer to see the ordinary people of Africa poor, so that aid workers will always have a well paid job and carry on the good work.

far2000

well i gues its easy 2 find verrry negative articles on the net, and i can understand where u coming fom Rob, My apologies if my reply was a bit harsh, but u must realise Africa is also making real strides 2 better the continent, but unfortunately there are always a few individuals that will destroy and further reduce the good strides that were being made....Africa is not all bad as u may seem, why dont u ask the millions of tourists that come 2 africa and wat they think of it...... ....u will always get the 3 sides 2 a story, a very negative,positive and neutral .....But i do agree that Africa has more problems on this planet and will take lots more time 2 heal, but your pessimism of africa not solving problems is far fetched and we try and not have a all is lost mentality, remmeber time heals, we have proven it in south africa in under a decade where all races/religions can live in peace without being sngled out, ofcourse we mite have a few cases here and there but trust me, southafrica is past the race issue....

I am intrigued with your posts rob, im sure we will have many more debates in the future....


Farouk

far2000

Hi Rob, i see u have quoted or understood my post wrongly on the USA Part, i was just pointing a link that Not only 3rd world countries have problems concerning race, religion, corruption etc, but even a superpower like USA Can have those problems.....i respect Americans just like every other countrymen, but unfortunately america is being judged by the decisions being taken by their leaders, i for one think that americas foreign policy might be the factor contributing this, but that is just my observation wich could mean nothing but it does not mean i am going 2 judge every USA Citizen an INVADER or such.....i Respect USA alot and it will always be the Model country 2 the rest of the world and i 4 one would like 2 visit on holiday someday.....
i apologise if i have offended u as an american, and i assure u i am more open minded than that.... ....

BTW; America need 2 work more on there cars.. ..


farouk