Test drive: E92 335i, M3(SMG) and GTI(DSG) - Page 3

Mr. M · 04-13-2007, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_me

I read somewhere where a carmag stated the seqventiell gearbox in M5 is smoother than the one in the Massa.
Personally I havent tried SMGII so I cant compare SMG2 to SMG3.

Mirage have you driven the new M5 or M6? (PS a 5 minute testdrive doesnt count

)

PS, I have driven manual cars for almost 15 years, maybe Im some kind of Manual God

I confess that I have never ever tried a car with SMG, but I'd love for the opportunity... Actually there's an E46 M3 sitting at a dealer nearby. Maybe...

I have read numerous threads on Maserati boards about Cambiocorsa and yes, many people do say SMG is smoother... Well one thing we both agree on, is that driving clutchless manual cars require lots of skill.

Centurion · 04-13-2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonda

I assume it was the E46 M3?

Great read, thanks Luw

Yupp Yupp. E46, wouldn't bother visiting a dealer for an E36 M3 test drive.

SMG was pretty damn fast and I had no idea that it automatically shifts down to the first gear at stand still. Very convenient and as you might suspect DSG does it as well. I'm glad BMW are switching over to DSG, it will be so much greater for their cars. Much smoother shifts and other benefits.

Once you drive DSG you never go back.

Just_me · 04-13-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirage77

I confess that I have never ever tried a car with SMG, but I'd love for the opportunity... Actually there's an E46 M3 sitting at a dealer nearby. Maybe...

I have read numerous threads on Maserati boards about Cambiocorsa and yes, many people do say SMG is smoother... Well one thing we both agree on, is that driving clutchless manual cars require lots of skill.

Many M5 E60 owners on M5board.com says SMG3 is smoother than SMG2. Like I said earlier, I have never tried the SMG2 so I can't say anything about it.

I also believe SMG is something you need to get used to (many owners claim so), I doubt a 15 minutes testdrive is enough for someone to give a fair opinion regarding SMG and determine if its good or bad. There are somethings that need a learning time, I doubt I will be able to play a rock song with my guitar in just 5 minutes

Just_me · 04-13-2007, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luwalira

Once you drive DSG you never go back.

so you prefer DSG over Manual?

Centurion · 04-13-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_me

so you prefer DSG over Manual?

Hmmm difficult question. DSG was awesome and it really didn't take me any longer than a few minutes to love it. Then again one has to bare in mind that I was driving an incredible car which does add a whole lot to the experience. I have yet to experience a manual GTI to find out if it's as great to drive but if I was to buy a high performance oriented car with DSG as an option I doubt that I would be able to resist ticking the box beside the name DSG in the option list.

As for SMG I'm pretty sure you get used to it after a while, but should you have to? Naah

. Don't get me wrong, SMG is faster than manual and it's not like I think SMG sucks but I'm just saying that DSG has made it obsolete. The same way USB memory sticks have made diskettes obsolete. Try DSG and you'll pretty much feel the same way as I do.

Imhotep Evil · 04-14-2007, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

The truth is suspension can only be designed for one of two things. Lateral G's or vertical oscillation. If you design it for one-then you automatically sacrifice the other-thats just the way it goes. BMW has been trying to make suspension that does both-whether they have succeeded or not is up for debate.

What about Active suspension !!!

Imhotep Evil · 04-14-2007, 04:59 AM

OK now to review.

I know it will be harsh but:

- unless you put a BMW on a twisty bumpy negative camer road and/or track you simply cannot say you drove, not to mention properly tested, a BMW.

On DSG SMG issue there are many misconceptions/mistakes:

- the SMG II on the M3 is old an obsolete both compared to the SMG III and DSG.

- the DSG is ONLY effective on upshifts but NOT on downshifts, were is just as slow as a manual = way way slower than a SMG III.

- for those who prefer racy F1 sensations, obviously not yourself, SMG is the way to go, and efectivelly sequentials, not the old SMG II, are faster than the dual clutches
* F1 and Zeroshift are seamingless both on upshift and downshift wereas the dual are not (and as I mentioned duals are only fast on upshifts but are just as slow on downshifts as manuals)
* also the dual clutch on the Veyron, build by Ricardo not BorgWarner, is slower than both the SMG II and SMG III .
* so, on ushifts (only) we have:
zeroshift/F1 > BorgWarner DSG > SMG III > SMG III > Ferrari F1 latest > Ricardo/Veyron DSG
* on downshifts:
all sequentials > duals = manuals
* at best the dual clutch is only fast(er) on upshifts vs. SMGs, but esentially the SMG is a step forward in efficiency since:
a) it can both upshift and downshift fast(er) vs. a dual clutch;
b) the dual clutch is a lot older, as in 60 years older, than the sequential and thus was designed to be only half effective (upshifts only)

- BMW is not switching to DSG, it's using a new gearbox that esentially combines both SMG and DSG in one.

Mr. M · 04-14-2007, 12:03 PM

Thanks for the info IE... As much as SMG is a faster-shifter than DSG, I must confess that I would still go with DSG. It's simply smoother and for the road it's the best compromise. SMG is more suited for the track, you can't deny that.

BTW, I went for a "refresher" test drive with my dad and sis for the GTI today... God damn, DSG is just amazing.

Centurion · 04-14-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil

- BMW is not switching to DSG, it's using a new gearbox that esentially combines both SMG and DSG in one.

Care to explain how the new gear box work?

Imhotep Evil · 04-16-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luwalira

Care to explain how the new gear box work?

From the info I have so far from Eni and Co. it will be dual-clutch until in S6 mode when it is disengaged and it enages/switches to the F1 style sequential.

Where were you when we discussed this ?!

So it's a dual + sequential in one, from the info we have so far.

04-14-2007, 04:59 AM	#27
Imhotep Evil Aficionado Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 4,382 Thanks: 402 Thanked 279 Times in 198 Posts	Re: Test drive: E92 335i, M3(SMG) and GTI(DSG) OK now to review. I know it will be harsh but: - unless you put a BMW on a twisty bumpy negative camer road and/or track you simply cannot say you drove, not to mention properly tested, a BMW. On DSG SMG issue there are many misconceptions/mistakes: - the SMG II on the M3 is old an obsolete both compared to the SMG III and DSG. - the DSG is ONLY effective on upshifts but NOT on downshifts, were is just as slow as a manual = way way slower than a SMG III. - for those who prefer racy F1 sensations, obviously not yourself, SMG is the way to go, and efectivelly sequentials, not the old SMG II, are faster than the dual clutches * F1 and Zeroshift are seamingless both on upshift and downshift wereas the dual are not (and as I mentioned duals are only fast on upshifts but are just as slow on downshifts as manuals) * also the dual clutch on the Veyron, build by Ricardo not BorgWarner, is slower than both the SMG II and SMG III . * so, on ushifts (only) we have: zeroshift/F1 > BorgWarner DSG > SMG III > SMG III > Ferrari F1 latest > Ricardo/Veyron DSG * on downshifts: all sequentials > duals = manuals * at best the dual clutch is only fast(er) on upshifts vs. SMGs, but esentially the SMG is a step forward in efficiency since: a) it can both upshift and downshift fast(er) vs. a dual clutch; b) the dual clutch is a lot older, as in 60 years older, than the sequential and thus was designed to be only half effective (upshifts only) - BMW is not switching to DSG, it's using a new gearbox that esentially combines both SMG and DSG in one. Last edited by Imhotep Evil; 04-14-2007 at 05:15 AM..

04-14-2007, 12:03 PM	#28
Mr. M Connoisseur Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 6,103 Thanks: 2,036 Thanked 1,722 Times in 925 Posts	Re: Test drive: E92 335i, M3(SMG) and GTI(DSG) Thanks for the info IE... As much as SMG is a faster-shifter than DSG, I must confess that I would still go with DSG. It's simply smoother and for the road it's the best compromise. SMG is more suited for the track, you can't deny that. BTW, I went for a "refresher" test drive with my dad and sis for the GTI today... God damn, DSG is just amazing.

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