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Old 12-19-2006, 08:11 AM   #51
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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Originally Posted by Merc1 View Post
All this engine talk makes me wonder if Porsche will have to switch to a V8 for the 911 in a few more years.

M
Well,I would not count on it because IMO 911 would loose too much with heavy V8 in the tail,especially on handling..BMW showed the way with 3.0 TT and is only naturally that others will try to do something similar in their engine department..IMO
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:12 AM   #52
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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Originally Posted by TycoonGTR View Post
As long as their boxer engines kick @$$ in terms of performance when compared to most V8 engines...There's no need for that. Other thing though is if they want to put it in the next 911 gen...

Well I think they're reaching the limits of what can be done with a naturally aspirated flat 6. I read somewhere that once you pass 3.6-3.8 liters you run into NVH problems. I'm sure they have enough brain power to keep the classic flat 6 alive for another couple of generations of 911. With direct-injection and other little tricks they should be good for a few more rounds.

M
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:51 AM   #53
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie View Post
Another point I want to make relates to the argument over engine configurations. As good as the new 335i engine is (and there is no doubt it is damn good in terms of power output), there is a more subjective "advantage" for larger displacement V8/V10 engines. And that is the engine sound. Part of owning a performance car is "feeling" the power. And the sound coming from the engine bay is very important for that "feeling". When I went to the track with a local BMW club earlier this year, I had more than one person come up to me afterwards to tell me how good my V8 sounded. A larger displacement V8 offers more of a deep sounding growl, which is very different than the high pitched metallic scream of the E46 M3. A large V8 generally sounds better (for most people) than any I4 or I6 configuration, regardless of whether there is forced induction or not. Notice how Ferrari's, Lambo's are all naturally aspirated large displacement V8/V12's??
The sound is one of the advantages of a 8 Cyl. compared to a 6 Cyl. engine. Other advantages are smooth operation
(although I6 are very smooth) , large percentage of torque from low RPM , also a V8 technically has more horse power per given displacement.
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:59 AM   #54
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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Originally Posted by Yannis View Post
The sound is one of the advantages of a 8 Cyl. compared to a 6 Cyl. engine. Other advantages are smooth operation
(although I6 are very smooth) , large percentage of torque from low RPM , also a V8 technically has more horse power per given displacement.
V8 also drink more fuel and generally V8 engines weigh more than I6.

there are advantages and disadvantages with all engines.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:09 AM   #55
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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also a V8 technically has more horse power per given displacement.
I'm not so sure about your last statement. You don't "need" a V8 to get >100HP/litre of displacement (the magical number BMW M fans always are proud of).

HP = torque x engine speed x (some coefficients). Torque is the measured twisting force the engine actually makes, which can be measure at the crank or at the drive wheels, while HP is often a calculated value.

To get high torque, you either need large displacment (like the C55), or forced induction (like the 335i). However, that is not the only way to get high HP, as illlustrated beautifully by the E46 M3 and E60 M5. They have relatively smaller displacement engines (and lowish torque), but they depend on high engine speed to compensate. And the only way to get very high engines speeds without blowing up the engine is to have a short stroke (which means the engine can't be that large).

That's why it is relatively rare to have a high reving large displacment engine, while the smaller rev happy engines are always the ones with the >100HP/Litre of displacement. There are exceptions, but this is a general rule. Engines in F1 are the perfect examples of small engines making tons of HP because of super high engine speeds.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:13 AM   #56
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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V8 also drink more fuel and generally V8 engines weigh more than I6.

there are advantages and disadvantages with all engines.
True. BMW is also making some of the best V8 and V10 engines in the world so that proves that an I6 configuration (even with turbo) has it's limits.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:37 AM   #57
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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True. BMW is also making some of the best V8 and V10 engines in the world so that proves that an I6 configuration (even with turbo) has it's limits.
Of course. Just look at the F1 engines...all V8 now.

V8 simply has much more potential than a V6/I6. Just like a V10 has that over a V8, and a V12 over a V8.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:40 AM   #58
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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V8 simply has much more potential than a V6/I6. Just like a V10 has that over a V8, and a V12 over a V8.
And so do turbo engines over NA ones. If done right, of course.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:44 AM   #59
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

I read in Autobild that Audi is preparing a turbo version of the 3.2 lt V6. I hope that it's true cause right now BMW's 3.0 turbo has no competition.
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:54 AM   #60
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Re: Autozeitung: BMW 335i Touring vs Audi S4 Avant vs MB C55 AMG T-Modell

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I read in Autobild that Audi is preparing a turbo version of the 3.2 lt V6.
I'm sure they'll deliver it.

But first I hope they'll finally introduce 3.2 FSI with ValveLift - that 300HP baby.
Where is this engine now?
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