Imhotep Evil

I kind of find that stupid.
MB and Audi should emphase on what diferentiate them from BMW, not go out and say, I am just as BMW-ish or more so than BMW.
Do those people at MB and Audi cannot come up with something better than, our bread and butter car is a BMW clone .
Really there seems to be a race on who is the most BMW premium car company.

Tumbo

You got some karma from me ! great post

Snake Vargas

IE, does BMW have the sole rights to making sporty compact executive sedans? No need to start accusing every move by Audi, MB and Lexus to make their small sedans more sporty of trying to copy BMW, and then disparaging their sales and whatnot and their lack of creativity. If sportiness is what people want, then sportiness is what every company will try to give, BMW or not. It just so happens that BMW's 3er is the benchmark car in the segment at the moment, and full credit to them. But let the others do what they will in peace.

martinbo

I think you're over-emphasising the BMW imitation thing even though I feel your comment has merit in certain instances.

Let's just cut to the chase and understand that whilst the BMW remains the benchmark in this segment and continues to be the leader in class dynamics, the 3er does have some shortcomings or just plain characteristics that aren't necessarily attractive to everyone.

Yes, IE, I do feel that Audi need to establish their own identity for the A4 other than that of being a 3er clone, then again, if they were so hell bent on such a strategy then one is sure they'd not be following the current FWD/AWD configuration. Whether Audi is as BMW-sensitive as you claim is purely conjecture.

Are Merc and Audi aware of the BMW 3 series supremacy? Absolutely. Will they attempt to market their own interpretation of this theme? Understandably, yes - that's a phenomenon of any free market: leaders and imitators and alternative providors.

But, really, will BMW's competitors compromise their brand values in order to produce nothing more than a facsimile of 3er? Never. The 3 series is brilliant no doubt. But it's also flawed.

Merc1

Stupid or not, everyone is chasing BMW in the entry-level sports sedan segment thats just the way it is. Feel free to write Mercedes, Infiniti, Audi, and Lexus and tell them how stupid they are. Lexus can't sell the new IS fast enough so I think they'd find your assertion that they shouldn't improve their driving dynamics to at the very least compete with the class leader, as "stupid".

That said I think you missed the point by a country mile. Obviously Audi, Mercedes and even Lexus (if you look at the interior or drive the new IS) are playing on what makes them different from BMW, or what made them all popular in the first place. They're trying to bring all their traditional strengths to the table a better driving experience. We already know Mercedes (luxury) isn't going to create 3-Series and Audi (FWD) can't make one with such a layout.

This thinking that car companies shouldn't try anything new or improve in other non-traditional for them areas is archaic at best.

What would you have Mercedes and Audi do, but minature S-Classes and A8s with driving dynamics to match? That would be ridiculous when the segment is becoming sportier each year. Lexus already has a baby-LS, its called the ES330.

M

Mr. Mercedes

I Agree with you 100% Luw. But for Mercedes sake I really hope the next C-class is a damn fine vehicle. With the current sales trends, I wouldnt be surprised to see Mercedes play 3rd fiddle to both BMW and Audi within a few years. Already that huckfeldt chop looks drab and dated next to the A4 one.

In 1-2 years I would seriously be looking at a car in this segment if everything goes well and If i dont get tired of waiting and opt for somthing cheaper lol. It could very well end up being either of the 4, so I anxiously wait to see what Mercedes and Audi deliver and how BMW and Lexus respond with their facelifts.

Would I be correct in assuming:
* New C-class end of 2006
* New A4 mid-end of 2007
* Facelift 3 early 2008
* Facelift Lexus early 2008
Oh just typing that out makes it seem like en eternity.

Imhotep Evil

I never said they shouldn't improve their driving dynamics.

The fact is that some of them would really like the "Ultimate Driving Machine" moniker (beat BMW at its own game).
Now I've read some reporter who said what Lexus really needed was a 3 series (clone).
Now can you imagine that, a couple of decades ago:
"Look BMW you need to forget this 2002/3 series/Ultimate driving machine crap and build a Mercedes Benz (clone), cause that's the way you're gonna succed".
Now that one of the most idiotic things I've heard.
And Lexus and the rest are irelevant (globaly). Only the C klasse and A4 camed close to the 3 series. But people bought them for diferent reasons. Now this sporty stuff thing is also due to the fact that (some) reporters said something like "sure it has all this strenths, but it doesn't drive like BMW (3 series)" or "the BMW is (still) the utimate driving machine".

Just look at the M3 CSL vs. GT3 (or Cayman S vs. Z4 M C), they do basicaly the same thing but in (very) diferent ways. Both drivers cars , both great when it comes to driving dynamics, yet (so) diferent.

Now if they do things like that I OK with that.

martinbo

Yes IE, you're right, but only from a BMW afficionado's point of view. Take my friend Darren who now owns an prev-gen Lexus IS200. What does he want next? Another Lexus or Merc C-Class. Why? He simply couldn't give a rat's arse about "Ultimate Driving Machines" he wants rather to be different and own a car that appeals to his personal set of values... He loves a good quality, reliable and comfortable car that rides well and has a big boot. Not quite prerequisites for buying a BMW now are they?
He doesn't care much for the 3 series truth be told.

Not everyone out there wants a BMW clone, let alone a BMW. This has absolutely nothing to do with technical superiority. It has everything to do with consumerism and the right to free choice. Merc's C-Class sells car for car with the 3 series here in SA with the A4 just behind. Everyone of those Merc and Audi buyers probably looked at the 3 series and even acknowledge its merits, they just ended up buying something else because the 3 series and all it's dynamic superiority just wasn't their cup of tea.

Yes, you continue to postulate that rival manufacturers envy and emulate the 3er as segment leader to a large extent but to say that they're doing this without establishing their own clear purpose and identity is conjecture.

I've never mistaken a Mercedes Benz C-Class for a 3 Series wannabe. I just don't feel that it is. But hey, that's my opinion.

Just_me

No 3er isnt for everyone but if we check sales the majority seem to prefer 3er. Nothing wrong with that

warot

It works for the other competitors as well...
BMW should try to have the comfort of a C class and the interior quality of an A4. Driving dynamics alone will not sell. Not everyone who buys these kinds of cars will think "Can I take this curve at 70kmh". However, thankfully for BMW, there are pockets of people that enjoy pure driving dynamics.

The reason people always mention that other cars should drive like the 3 series is because BMW keep improving the car generation after generation. Think about it, the E46, at the end of it's life cycle was still considered the best handling car in its class. Then comes the E90 and BMW have improved on what people though was already the pinacle.