warot

If you are talking about the Top Gear article, they picked the GTR in almost every category didn't they? Besides:

Nurburgring times:
Porsche: 7.54 min (semi-R-tires)
GTR: Supposedly 7:38

Even if the conditions aren't the same, not same driver, extra equipment, blah blah... it's still a difference of 16 seconds.

While the GTR's forte is performance, it has all the luxury equipment that the 911 has I think. While the interior design is probably superior to the GTR, the GTR's interior is supposedly half way decent. Again, I figure that people don't want to compare it to a Porsche because of its badge and because of its ridiculous price.

Deutsch

It's nice to see that there are still people here with some objectivity in their thinking. Because a car is German doesn't mean it's superior to cars from all other countries of origin, though indeed the Germans have a very sharp technological and performance profile. The Japanese are twice as sharp since they can make that technology work, well, without nary a glitch (in most cases)....Anyways I digress. No, the GTR isn't a luxutry brand vehicle, but it's a "brand" car. It sells itself because it's credible performer (a la Corvette, Viper). If the car was not as good as you hear it is, well then you'd hear otherwise.

DocM

Say what you want guys, but this thing will smoke every single car made by BMW to date. That's saying a lot, especially when it's coming from a BMW fan!

Merc1

BMW doesn't really compete with the GT-R so in a way yes, but in a way no they aren't. Give BMW a chance to make a true super/sports car. A revised M3 with a turbo V8 and AWD isn't going to happen and it surely won't happen because of a steroidal Nissan.

M

DocM

Merc1, I agree with you 100%, however the performance price ratio that the GT-R offers is simply mind blowing!
And I'm becoming less and less convinced by the prices of BMWs, or any of the Big german car manufacturers for that matter.

SDNR

^Interesting points DocM.

Why are German cars so much more expensive than Japanese ones? ....Japanese labour is not cheap, so it must have a lot to do with productivity.

NarutoRamen

As much as I love the GT-R, BMW doesn't need to change a thing about the M3. The day they make the M3 a TT-AWD car is the day I turn to their competitors. the M3 is all about a RWD with a high-revving naturally aspirated engine. If they go the "AWD with Twin-turbo" route, all they'd be doing is following Nissan and others. BMW doesn't need to follow, they need to lead.

Merc1

Exactly, I agree.

M

Sunny

Or the brand name. I mean, let us face it, premium German cars cost as much as they do cause people are willing to pay the premium for the brand name, not really cause they cost as much to build - wasn't there some article on the ridiculous amount Porsche makes per 911 - something to the tune of $20,000. And I don't even want to imagine what the figure is for Italian exotics.

I am not ridiculing the idea of brand value. Like it or hate it, it is part of the modern society. I like to think of myself as someone not too into brands, but I will admit, the toughest part of buying a GTR if I ever get one will be telling my friends I paid $70 grands for a Nissan, while I will proudly announce I sunk 100 big ones into a Porsche.

Merc1

Well this isn't really anything new. The Germans have never and probably will never be the bang for the buck purchase. BMW gets away with this with the 3-Series. On paper why would anyone buyer a 328i over the larger, more powerful, better equipped G35? It comes down the the drive, the design and all those nuances that European cars have traded on for years. Not to mention the snob factor and in the case of say the 3-Series and S-Class vs the Lexus LS, the Germans charge more because they're simply superior cars IMO. The GT-R to many will just be another Nissan, pity them because it is great car, but that is how a lot will see it no matter how well it performs.

This new Corvette ZR-1 is the best performance bargain in the world, but it won't slow Ferrari, Aston-Martin, or Lamborghini. It may cause a few and I say a few to pause about a 911, but not many. Thats just the way it is. The Germans face this "problem" in nearly every segment they compete in with the Japanese and Americans. In reality though it has rarely been a problem for them.

On paper Japanese and American cars make German cars look bad, but when the driving and other subjective things are factored in German and other storied European makes smash them in sheer curbside appeal.


M