Bilal

Actually, lets settle this WEIGHT thing once and for all.

The EU standard of weight measurement of a STANDARD, FACTORY-SPEC car with NO OPTIONS other than those that come standard, HAS TO HAVE:

1).Driver (68kgs)
2).Tank filled to 90%
3). Luggage (7kgs)

This standard applies to all manufacturers in the European Union.

Therefore, the weight of the M3 and C63 under this standard is as follows:

M3 - 1655kgs.
C63 - 1730kgs.
RS4 (just for comparison) 1710kgs.

(All figures from manufacturers website)

A total difference of 85kgs between the C63 and M3.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you but I'd be hard pressed to tell that difference if driving both cars. The only way I can see the testers rant on about the weight difference between these cars and how the M3 feels sharper is actually down to the engineering of both cars. The M3 is designed to be much livelier and with alumnium suspension components, no doubt quicker to change direction.
The C63 is designed with just a deliberate hint of understeer for MB safety reasons and with weight distribution that is heavier up-front, results in the car not being as 'lively' to turn-in.

I actually have read somewhere that the 6.3 AMG engine is lighter than BMW M's 4.0 V8, but seeing as how that could be down to different measurements, I'll leave that out of the discussion.

So please, do not assume that the C63 is a 'lard-ass'.

Just_me

Im alright dude

like you I like the C63 but I dont consider is as a miracle on 4 wheels. C63 is no more impressive than any other car on this planet.
Jesus walking on water was a miracle, C63 is not

atuv

C63 is no miracle of course so is any other car(maybe there's a few exceptions ) so i was just expressing my admiration for the car also the M3 is a superb machine and would love to own one if i can afford it

Guibo

Regarding the EU weight standard, can someone shed some light on how measurements are taken? Are all of these weights actually measured by an independent governing body (ie, the EU)?

It seems odd to me that so many C63 tests show a curb weight (minus the driver and luggage) of over 1800kg. C&D's test of a car on 18" wheels (without the Performance Package) yielded a curb weight of 1834kg. Meanwhile, Autocar's test of a well-optioned M3 (on 19" wheels and with EDC) showed 1625kg. Autocar generally weighs with a full tank. The EU-standard base/stripper M3 should weigh about 1588kg, without driver & luggage but with a full tank. This indicates that Autocar's M3 had about 37kg's worth of options, assuming BMW figures are accurate. (Sport Auto's M3 weighed within 20kg of the theoretical 1588kg figure).
If we apply the same to the standard C63, it should weigh about 1665kg with a full 74-liter tank. Yet the lightest-recorded C63 so far (AMuS, with 18" wheels) is 1803kg. A difference of 138 kg from the theoretical. This means that the options in that lightest C63 (possibly w/o Performance package) weigh 3.7 times more than the options of that M3 on 19" wheels and with EDC. What could possibly make for this difference?

With respect to weight, weight distribution and turn-in...
If we assume that indeed Mercedes' engine is lighter by any significant amount, then it should theoretically be easier to acheive 50/50 weight distribution, with the AMG's longer length also contributing, correct? The M3's turn-in advantage points not only to a difference in suspension (which also retains better ride comfort over bumpy roads), but it looks like there is a payoff in centralizing the mass, if the overall mass difference is not significant. If so, then we should expect to see the 4-door, steel-roofed M3 lose this advantage, assuming similar suspension settings compared to the coupe. This last point is of particular note to the C63: despite the harder suspension settings (required to reign in an apparently lighter V8 and neglible 85kg overall difference?) it is no more agile or nimble than the relatively supple M3, while losing the comfort advantage of the previous car.

Bilal

Guibo, you have highlighted this immense discrepancy between the weight figures. The figures I quoted are from the manufacturer's website. I tend to trust these and disregard the figures produced by magazines - which as your post shows, tends to greatly confuse matters.

I cannot say how these measurements are taken and I would take these measurements with a grain of salt in any event, since manufacturers have a way of boosting power figures more than the stated amount in order to compensate for any additional weight. For example, I was told once that the German TUV which measures, amongst other things, the power produced by a car has to be within 5% of the stated power. I don't know about you, but 5% of 457 horsepower seems quite substantial - and a 500hp C63 would be just within this stated range!

As for the handling differences. I believe the M3 has much better weight distribution than the C63 (much closer to 50:50 than the C63) and is perhaps better engineered with regards to load transfer when turning and stopping etc..Additionally BMW M have used lighter suspension components which further balances and reduces load transfer during turning or stopping.
The C63 is by contrast, nose heavy. Therefore in any turning or braking situation the already heavier front end is going to exacerbate load transfer to the front making it feel heavier and less nimble. We'll leave the M3 Saloon out just right now as it has not been driven by reviewers.


I have already stated that the 6.3 may be lighter than the 4.0 BMW engine but that could be down to different measurements and as such cannot enter the equation.


FYI, C63 weight distribution is 54/46:

- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

coolraoul

The C63 actually has an heavy automatic transmission; it may will be lighter with the upcoming DSG?

bmer

Has the DCT been officially confirmed for the C 63?

coolraoul

Not yet I think, but it comes. Mornhinweg smiles when you tell him you don't like the Speedshift on the C63, and some W212 AMG were spied with a DSG... It is coming, at last. I hope it will be on the SL63 Black Series.

Just_me

they have hinted that DCT is under development but no words on when. I doubt its coming for C63, instead we have to wait for next E63. Like 2009/2010.

Sunny

DCT is not a light weight transmission - it has 2 clutches and the hydraulics to automatically shift and clutch and declutch. In the end, most transmissions, the weight is dictated by the torque they have to handle, so don't expect much weight saving from the transmission.