Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed

siko · 12-06-2007, 05:12 PM

Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed

Last month Renault became the second manufacturer participating in F1 this year to be accused of spying on its competitors. In this case, the Renault team was accused of "unauthorized possession of documents and confidential information" pertaining to McLaren's F1 cars. We recognize the ironic twist of fate that McLaren was accused and convicted of spying on Ferrari last summer and penalized by being stripped of all its constructors' championship points for the 2007 season and fined a record $100,000,000 USD. Today Renault was also found guilty of possessing documents on McLaren's cars that included details about "the McLaren fueling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars." What was Renault's punishment for its crime? Nothing. Though it technically was in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code, Renault's getting off scott free. We bet McLaren is none too happy with this verdict considering the heavy penalty its team has paid for their snooping, but the FIA's ruling stands.

[Source: f1-live.com via Autoblog.com]

Centurion · 12-06-2007, 05:14 PM

FIA = Wankers

I damn sure hope that Mclaren will appeal.

450SEL6.9 · 12-06-2007, 07:40 PM

Why the uproar? The article conveniently ignores the fact that the exact same thing happened to Mclaren after the first WMSC hearing, ie., nothing. Guilty of possession, but no penalty was the headline in July. Stepneygate was re-opened, as promised, after new incriminating evidence came to light.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the first WMSC hearing establish that possession alone does not merit punishment? Until new incriminating evidence comes forth linking Renault's intent to use that data, their situation is not yet comparable to Mclaren's. Right now Renault is where Mclaren was in July.

Centurion · 12-06-2007, 07:48 PM

I guess you're right SEL. Full details of the verdict will be presented later on Friday. Let's wait and see what will happen. Mclaren will certainly dig deeper into this and do what ever they can to make sure that Renault will face punishment.

450SEL6.9 · 12-06-2007, 08:01 PM

^^
Most likely the statement wil say the case can be reopened if new evidence is presented. The only thing Mclaren can really do is find a paper trail or unshakable witness to testify that there was an attempt to use the stolen data in testing or engineers tried to input that data in a simulator, seeking an advantage.

Unless they do find new evidence, maybe they shouldn't say anything. If they come out and slam this verdict, the "shameless hypocrites devoid of any integrity" label could stick to them like maggots on roadkill. They themselves were guilty of possession and not punished. How can they now make the case that it is wrong for Renault to be guilty of possession and also not be punished?

Centurion · 12-06-2007, 08:06 PM

Now they get to know how Ferrari felt after the first hearing of Stepneygate. I guess it's karma baby. This has got to be the worst season for Mclaren, ever!

-They lost against Ferrari in court.
-The lost the constructor's championship.
-They lost all their constructor's points.
-They lost the driver's championship.
-They lost Alonso.
-Now they have lost against Renault in court.

They are lucky they haven't lost any of the big sponsors like Santanders, MM and Vodafone.

cawimmer430 · 12-08-2007, 05:55 AM

From IHT.

Renault could face a future penalty

Renault could face a future penalty if any new evidence suggests they gained an advantage from McLaren technical information in their possession, Formula One's governing body said on Friday.

The former world champions were found guilty of a breach of the rules but went unpunished at a hearing in Monaco on Thursday after the FIA's World Motor Sport Council decided there was not enough evidence to show the championship had been affected.

The International Automobile Federation published an explanation of that decision on Friday.

"Although a number of very unsatisfactory elements were noted during the deliberations...the WMSC concluded that there was insufficient evidence to establish that the information was used in such a way as to interfere with or to have an impact on the championship," it said.

"It should be noted that in the event of new information coming to light which calls into question the WMSC's conclusions in this decision, this matter may be re-opened by the FIA," added the statement.

The spying controversy was the second to hit Formula One this year. In the other, McLaren were fined $100 million and stripped of all their constructors' points in September for having Ferrari information in their possession.

FOUR DRAWINGS

McLaren had claimed that Renault gained "a clear benefit and unfair advantage" as a result of mechanical design engineer Phil Mackereth taking information with him when he left the Mercedes-powered team and joined Renault in September 2006.

A former Renault employee then moved to McLaren and told them what Mackereth had. At the same time, Mackereth informed his team's senior management.

McLaren had said that the information amounted to 762 pages when printed out and included 11 floppy disks with 18 individual technical drawings.

However the WMSC said it had emerged that Renault engineers had received and considered only four confidential McLaren drawings from Mackereth.

"The WMSC can be concerned only with what Renault had access to (rather than what Mackereth took) from McLaren as only the former could impact the FIA Formula One world championship," the statement said.

Of those four drawings, the WMSC found that three were either of no use or were not used and Renault failed to understand the full significance of the fourth.

"The fourth drawing (a drawing of McLaren's so-called 'J damper'), was used by Renault to try to have the system that they thought McLaren was using declared illegal," it said.

"This failed because Renault had certain fundamental misunderstandings about the operation of the 'J damper' system. This suggests that Renault's sight of the 'J damper' drawing did not give Renault enough information to understand how it worked."

The FIA noted that Renault had removed the McLaren information from its computer system but had not been able to wipe it from some 28 permanent back-up tapes.

However it said Renault and McLaren had agreed to find a solution that would ensure that the tapes in question were put out of reach of Renault.

12-06-2007, 05:12 PM	#1
siko Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 4,577 Thanks: 1,655 Thanked 1,573 Times in 736 Posts	Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed Last month Renault became the second manufacturer participating in F1 this year to be accused of spying on its competitors. In this case, the Renault team was accused of "unauthorized possession of documents and confidential information" pertaining to McLaren's F1 cars. We recognize the ironic twist of fate that McLaren was accused and convicted of spying on Ferrari last summer and penalized by being stripped of all its constructors' championship points for the 2007 season and fined a record $100,000,000 USD. Today Renault was also found guilty of possessing documents on McLaren's cars that included details about "the McLaren fueling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars." What was Renault's punishment for its crime? Nothing. Though it technically was in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code, Renault's getting off scott free. We bet McLaren is none too happy with this verdict considering the heavy penalty its team has paid for their snooping, but the FIA's ruling stands. [Source: f1-live.com via Autoblog.com]

12-06-2007, 05:14 PM	#2
Centurion Jetsetter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 9,202 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 1,507 Times in 805 Posts	Re: Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed FIA = Wankers I damn sure hope that Mclaren will appeal.

12-06-2007, 07:40 PM	#3
450SEL6.9 Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,142 Thanks: 172 Thanked 108 Times in 95 Posts	Re: Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed Why the uproar? The article conveniently ignores the fact that the exact same thing happened to Mclaren after the first WMSC hearing, ie., nothing. Guilty of possession, but no penalty was the headline in July. Stepneygate was re-opened, as promised, after new incriminating evidence came to light. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the first WMSC hearing establish that possession alone does not merit punishment? Until new incriminating evidence comes forth linking Renault's intent to use that data, their situation is not yet comparable to Mclaren's. Right now Renault is where Mclaren was in July.

12-06-2007, 07:48 PM	#4
Centurion Jetsetter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 9,202 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 1,507 Times in 805 Posts	Re: Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed I guess you're right SEL. Full details of the verdict will be presented later on Friday. Let's wait and see what will happen. Mclaren will certainly dig deeper into this and do what ever they can to make sure that Renault will face punishment.

12-06-2007, 08:01 PM	#5
450SEL6.9 Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,142 Thanks: 172 Thanked 108 Times in 95 Posts	Re: Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed ^^ Most likely the statement wil say the case can be reopened if new evidence is presented. The only thing Mclaren can really do is find a paper trail or unshakable witness to testify that there was an attempt to use the stolen data in testing or engineers tried to input that data in a simulator, seeking an advantage. Unless they do find new evidence, maybe they shouldn't say anything. If they come out and slam this verdict, the "shameless hypocrites devoid of any integrity" label could stick to them like maggots on roadkill. They themselves were guilty of possession and not punished. How can they now make the case that it is wrong for Renault to be guilty of possession and also not be punished?

12-06-2007, 08:06 PM	#6
Centurion Jetsetter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 9,202 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 1,507 Times in 805 Posts	Re: Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed Now they get to know how Ferrari felt after the first hearing of Stepneygate. I guess it's karma baby. This has got to be the worst season for Mclaren, ever! -They lost against Ferrari in court. -The lost the constructor's championship. -They lost all their constructor's points. -They lost the driver's championship. -They lost Alonso. -Now they have lost against Renault in court. They are lucky they haven't lost any of the big sponsors like Santanders, MM and Vodafone.

12-08-2007, 05:55 AM	#7
cawimmer430 Trendsetter Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mühldorf am Inn, Germany Posts: 8,028 Thanks: 3,975 Thanked 3,189 Times in 1,366 Posts	Re: Renault found guilty of F1 espionage, no penalty imposed From IHT. Renault could face a future penalty Renault could face a future penalty if any new evidence suggests they gained an advantage from McLaren technical information in their possession, Formula One's governing body said on Friday. The former world champions were found guilty of a breach of the rules but went unpunished at a hearing in Monaco on Thursday after the FIA's World Motor Sport Council decided there was not enough evidence to show the championship had been affected. The International Automobile Federation published an explanation of that decision on Friday. "Although a number of very unsatisfactory elements were noted during the deliberations...the WMSC concluded that there was insufficient evidence to establish that the information was used in such a way as to interfere with or to have an impact on the championship," it said. "It should be noted that in the event of new information coming to light which calls into question the WMSC's conclusions in this decision, this matter may be re-opened by the FIA," added the statement. The spying controversy was the second to hit Formula One this year. In the other, McLaren were fined $100 million and stripped of all their constructors' points in September for having Ferrari information in their possession. FOUR DRAWINGS McLaren had claimed that Renault gained "a clear benefit and unfair advantage" as a result of mechanical design engineer Phil Mackereth taking information with him when he left the Mercedes-powered team and joined Renault in September 2006. A former Renault employee then moved to McLaren and told them what Mackereth had. At the same time, Mackereth informed his team's senior management. McLaren had said that the information amounted to 762 pages when printed out and included 11 floppy disks with 18 individual technical drawings. However the WMSC said it had emerged that Renault engineers had received and considered only four confidential McLaren drawings from Mackereth. "The WMSC can be concerned only with what Renault had access to (rather than what Mackereth took) from McLaren as only the former could impact the FIA Formula One world championship," the statement said. Of those four drawings, the WMSC found that three were either of no use or were not used and Renault failed to understand the full significance of the fourth. "The fourth drawing (a drawing of McLaren's so-called 'J damper'), was used by Renault to try to have the system that they thought McLaren was using declared illegal," it said. "This failed because Renault had certain fundamental misunderstandings about the operation of the 'J damper' system. This suggests that Renault's sight of the 'J damper' drawing did not give Renault enough information to understand how it worked." The FIA noted that Renault had removed the McLaren information from its computer system but had not been able to wipe it from some 28 permanent back-up tapes. However it said Renault and McLaren had agreed to find a solution that would ensure that the tapes in question were put out of reach of Renault.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode