FIA versus McLaren Fiasco Thread

[450SEL6.9]

Originally Posted by Matt530i

The article says that Alonso and De La Rosa have been offerred immunity if they testify. If things are as bad as they sometimes appear for Alonso at McLaren, and he falls further behind Hamilton this weekend, I wonder how tempted he'd be to say they used the data and see McLaren (and therefore Hamilton) DQ'd for the rest of the season?

I think that immunity refers only to their super licenses. The immunity means that their licenses will not be revoked. I don't think it means Alonso can keep his points if Mclaren is found guilty.

Regardless of how TOUI "used" the data to their advantage, I just don't believe anything will happen to Hamilton. Ferrari would really need to do some strong arming to get Hamilton penalized, even if he has benefited from having their secrets.

[Centurion]

If Alonso falls down into the pit of hell, he's bound to take Ron Dennis and the whole Mclaren team with him. So Mclaren will probably defend him to all cost.

[Bartek Sikorski]

FIA have been accused of conducting a witch hunt against McLaren by former world champion Sir Jackie Stewart.
Stewart made the claim on the eve of Ron Dennis team's date before the World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Thursday in what will be the latest installment in the spygate saga that has rocked the sport this season.
"It seems some of the most powerful people are more aligned to Ferrari than anybody else," the three time former world champion told BBC Sport.
He added: "The FIA have historically been very close to Ferrari, closer to them than anyone else.
"There are more Ferrari representatives on the World Council than anybody else.
"I'm not saying that there hasn't been wrongdoing.
"But to start witch-hunting and trying to implicate a team principal (Dennis) to a level that is currently going on, I think is negative to the sport."
McLaren are accused by Ferrari of benefitting from information contained in a 780-page dossier leaked to their chief designer Mike Coughlan by the Italian team's sacked performance director Nigel Stepney.
Dennis has always denied the team capitalised in any way from the information contained in the dossier.
McLaren were found guilty of fraudulent conduct but escaped punishment due to insufficient evidence when the case was first heard in July, but risk being docked points or thrown out of the championship if found guilty second time around.
The FIA called Thursday's hearing after receiving copies of e-mail contact between F. Alonso and his fellow Spaniard, McLaren test driver Pedpo de la Rosa.
Motorsport's rulers strongly rejeted accusations of bias however, a spokesperson saying last week: "The suggestion that the FIA's ongoing investigation is about anything other than the pursuit of sporting fairness demonstrates a blinding refusal to accept the basic facts."
Ferrari concede the affair is bad for F1 but insist they are pursuing the case in the best interests of F1.
Ferrari boss Jean Todt, speaking at Monza at the weekend, said: "It's a taint on the sport. I think that we are sorry that it is happening in Formula One, but we are in the position where we want the truth to appear.
"And that's all that we want, and all that we have been working on and doing, and we are confident that the truth will come through."
McLarens's championship leader, British rookie L. Mamilton, has warned that his dream of lifting the title could be wrecked by the scandal.
"If you sit down and think about it, I could have what I've worked for -- and what all the team have worked for -- we could have it taken away from us."
"It was just going so well and then you just get this big knife that cuts off your blood line," he added.
Hamilton, second to Alonso in Sunday's Italian Grand Prix, leads the drivers' title race by three points from his Spanish teammate.
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[Zonda]

Cheating is cheating and should be punished. But I really hope McLaren gets away not too badly hurt.
Just think about the times when people in charge have ruled in Ferrari's favour. Like Monza 2006, Alonso impeding Massa? And that's not the only case.
Excluding McLaren out of championships is just wrong and would ruin the sport. Would be more fair if McLaren were obliged to share detailed documents on their car instead or something like that to level things out.

[Imhotep Evil]

Ofcourse FIA is the Ferrari Intervention Association.
But come on, leaving McLaren without any penalty (witch could have freed Alonso ).

I've wondered if the penalty in Hungary wasn't for compensation.

Ofcourse I'd like a penalty against Ferrari too for the the use of the flex-floor.

[chonkoa]

Blah blah blah.
Cheating is cheating, and whatever punitive measure that is appropriate should be meted out to deter future occurrence.

[450SEL6.9]

I think Jackie is allowing his British national pride to get in the way of his objectivity (what's left of it) again. If it was Mclaren being victim, I think several retired Brits would be hopping mad that the process is not enough of a witch hunt and screaming, "Perdition to the Ewiw Italian Empire!"

[Imhotep Evil]

I'll repost my post here

Ferrari's interest have absolutely nothing to do with moral obligations
They're simply pissed off that they can't win on the track the championships.
Those documents are basicaly irrelevant or almost to the MP4-22 architecture, and they know it. That's why in the Toyota case only the persons involved were punished and Ferrari didn't made a fuss.

Ferrari and moral (obligations) go together as much as McLaren and integrity.

One should call Ferrari the Team Of Utmost Morality, with the proper quotes.


I very much hope, being biased, that McLaren would be punished because that'll liberate Alonso.

To sum up here's a quote I found on some board

Also what's with this B* McLaren have with Renault now ?!

[coolraoul]

Re-post too, thought it was that topic when I posted in Belgian GP...

Ferrari's interest have absolutely nothing to do with moral obligations
They're simply pissed off that they can't win on the track the championships.
Those documents are basicaly irrelevant or almost to the MP4-22 architecture, and they know it. That's why in the Toyota case only the persons involved were punished and Ferrari didn't made a fuss.

Agree, the cars are very different and the solutions can't be adapted.
McLaren produces all docs for each piece of their car and for every improvements, and proved they did not use at all the Ferrari's documents.

The tyres pressures and all that are also very different from one to another F1, so it is all media stuff and publicity against McLaren, even if what they did is really stupid and must be sanctionned.

The last race proved that McLaren does not need any Ferrari info to be much faster and much more reliable.

McLaren must be sanctionned, but as they did not use and did not benefit from all that, the sanction can't be to exclude them from 2 years, including one where they are much better than Ferrari.

The stupidly oversanctioned race of Hungarian was thought to be the sanction imho.

Ferrari hates it to loose, and it is not the first time that they try to win out of the circuit when their cars can't win the races...

[Bartek Sikorski]

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A FIA spokesman has strengthened speculation that McLaren tried to drag Renault into F1’s escalating espionage affair ahead of the World Council hearing on Thursday. Following rumours that boss Ron Dennis is in possession of potentially explosive evidence that could incriminate the French team as well as Ferrari, the governing body was contacted for comment.
ITV quotes a FIA spokesman as confirming that “certain matters regarding Renault F1″ have been raised in recent days by McLaren, as the Woking based team prepares to face new and potentially damning evidence at the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday. It is understood that McLaren’s information about Renault and Ferrari is technical in nature, rather than relating specifically to the spy scandal.
“We can confirm that McLaren lawyers have recently brought to our attention certain matters regarding Renault F1,” the FIA spokesman said.
“But we can also confirm that the (Renault) team does not form any part of our investigations into McLaren’s alleged breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.
“The FIA has reminded McLaren that the World Council hearing in Paris on Thursday will focus solely on the new evidence in that investigation. To the extent required, any other matters will be dealt with as part of an entirely separate process.
“Renault F1 is aware of this and is happy to cooperate.” Renault boss Flavio Briatore told La Gazzetta dello Sport: “(Dennis is) throwing stones a bit everywhere. We are calm, no problem at all.” (GMM)