SDNR

Ok GTA7.5 I think we might be talking past each other here - you are clearly focusing on ergonomics, I am talking about aesthetics - you are correct about Mercedes' ergonomics, they are very good - I am not criticizing Mercedes' ergonomics at all.

My argument is solely about the Styling direction at Mercedes-Benz - it's all over the place (I'm borrowing a quote from BeemerBoi there, I don't think He'll mind). Since the merger with Chrysler, Mercedes have gone through a kind of identity crisis - so much so that they didn't even feel confident that the Mercedes brand could compete against Rolls-Royce - I have no doubt that decision came from the US side of the operation, with the American market in mind; and that's the problem I have with Mercedes today, the Americans have all but destroyed their own motoring heritage - I doubt GM will even exist 20 years from now - the Merger with Chrysler and the obvious abatement of Mercedes-Benz's traditionally unsurpassed standards, really annoys me a lot.

Let me make this clear, I am not anti-American at all - the British and French motoring industries are a virtual joke these days, so it's not just the Americans I'm critical of.

Centurion

Very interesting discussion going on here. To start with I do have to say that I have some MB fanboy blood in my body but I am in no way biased or anything like that.

Some of you are definetly right in saying that the E-class interior is aimed at aupper middle class people. Although though MB is moving forward with their design such as witht he CLS and B-class a lot of their customers are rather conservative and aren't totally ready to go over to the rather Robotcop/Terminator-like design direction which Audi and BMW are leaning towards. MB has for a long period been a luxury brand and it is evident that their cars will allways have some "old world" elements both interior and exterior wise. Further more it will be interesting to see what type of interior the next E-class will offer.


Instead of placing lots of huge wood panels and chrome switches like RR in their cars MB has cleverly given the E-class a modern looking interior with very smooth lines and a classic woodpanel stretching around the whole interior. A lot of people find the e-class interior very conviniet, invinting and warming. It is no where are futuristic as the A6 and 5er interior. You do have to bare in mind that some people are not ready to live in an environment which is very edgy, cold and where all the objects are designed in a true B&O spirit. I may also add that I do think that the A8 interior is signifigantly less futuristic than the A6 interior and I find it more preferable.

SDNR

Thanks for you voice of reason Lu, everything you said is very true.

I started this thread with the intention of being as objective as possible...but unfortunately my own personal bias keeps getting in the way - thanks for pointing out that many people prefer a more "decorative" and warm feeling interior design - as I said right at the beginning, I do like the E class interior, It is just not my favourite.

GTA8.5

My points were also about asthetetics. ergonomics seemed to fall into place
with what you call "form follows function" with the A6 interior.

Since when did an American company (speaking of Chrysler) get involved with the design direction of Mercedes-Benz. That statement makes it sound like Chysler bought Mercedes and has influence in the design department. Do we have proof of this? That is a very weak arguement to begin with! I could very well say the that BMW
is suffering from an identity crisis with their new design director Chris Bangle
who is in fact, American. Just because new BMWs look nice and sporty
to you, one might argue that "Oh no, it still looks German". This identity chrsis talk is a bunch of fanboy bologna! we need to use a little more wisdom than that. There is no proof behind those claims. It`s Just talk about what one doesn`t like in a design, or the direction it`s headed. Things change and evolve. Nothing stays the same with car designs and thats not a problem, it keeps things fresh with loyal owners who like to change up.
The only thing that shouldn`t change is the core values of the company
and what that company stands by. The rich old-world Heritage and safty values and designs of Mercedes will never be changed by an American company.

The only American influence I see is the "bling" factor or "flame" attention
to surfaces and that started in the design studios of the US. Both BMW
and Mercedes are "guilty" of this. Audi will slowly follow with their own
version of this influence in design.

Now, Mercedes hasn`t been in competition with Roll-Royce for sometime, thats been more than 30 years ago. Thay revived the Maybach to compete in that market but thats another issue all together.

GTA8.5

Very Good, logical post Luwalira! karma given!

I think we are all guilty of bias (myself included) Being biased isn`t a problem.
If common since and intelligence is used in a biased arguement, that arguement could have valuable points.

RikfromBelgium

Nr 1 A6
Although it can be empty when chose with the wrong materials, it is a very nice place to be. The design is modern, yet flows, and with the right touches it is very rich. Feel is the best in the segment, Audi remains the best quality when it comes to interiors.

Nr 2 5 series

only reason it's not nr 1 is because it takes getting used to. It's fresh and modern and will look the youngest for the longest time. It's sad to see the tilted cockpit gone, but the new direction has already been accepted by most and slightly, with more models arriving, you see it more and more making sense. I also find the 5 series to be the most avant-garde BMW, even more than the siebener. It's way more futuristic and will influence more cars than any BMW before, IMO

Nr 3 E-class

the oldest, one of the big reasons of being last. Design is nice, but I don't like the big empty surfaces. Also some quality issues, if I can judge from E-classes I have touched and sat in. It is very spacious though, the most of all, and if you want the salon-feeling, this is the one to chose from these three cars

as for the discussion going on, I agree with Roberto, MB is a bit grasping at the moment. Some of the new interiors haven't been a real hit, R-class ex, and big simularities between R, B and A show lack of originality. On the other hand, the CLS interior showed great design and nice flow ( although still some quality lapses, at least in my uncles CLS) But for me the biggest proof is the S-class interior. Obvious resemblence with the Siebener, agreed by most of the reasonable people, shows that they are searching what do do, to finda theme they can build on, but it appears they lack in own ideas. Quality is better though.

SDNR

No you are missing my point completely here GTA.5. there is a huge American input into all aspects of Mercedes operation at corporate level.

As for Chris Bangle, that is a completely different situation, Bangle is in charge of design, BMW is still a wholly German manufacturer. I could argue with you about this all day, but I'm not going to - you can continue to insinuate that I'm ignorant and lack taste or sophistication as you have over several posts - but you will not change my beliefs about Mercedes present situation.


Huh????? - I have no idea why you are calling me a fanboy - presumably an Audi fanboy .........I just have no reply to this...noone has ever called me a fanboy before...LOL

GTA8.5

50% American owned. I`d like to see some info on this. Links or a news article if you can post it here. This is news to me.


[quote=Roberto]As for Chris Bangle, that is a completely different situation, Bangle is in charge of design, BMW is still a wholly German manufacturer. I could argue with you about this all day, but I'm not going to - you can continue to insinuate that I'm ignorant and lack taste or sophistication as you have over several posts - but you will not change my beliefs about Mercedes present situation.[quote]


I well know Bangles position at BMW. I also know that BMW is a wholly German manufacture, that was not my dispute! It`s this American influence
issue that you have brought to the table. A lot of what Bangle has learned
came from a design studio in Calfornia if Im not mistaken. Him being the design director brings those influences to his designers. Theres nothing wrong
with what we Americans introduce to the Automotive industery. If it`s a benafit and doesn`t change the core values of the company theres nothing wrong with that. Remember we are still doing better than the Germans in the quality segments. Also, I would never hope to insinuate that your an ignorant person Roberto, don`t take things so personally! when I use the term
"educated eye" I`m refering to a deep scientific study of that design, not just
an analysis of the appearence of the design. I think your an intelligant poster.

I`m not here to change your mind. If you believe the American influence
is a bad thing than thats your belief.




[quote=Roberto]Huh????? - I have no idea why you are calling me a fanboy - presumably an Audi fanboy .........I just have no reply to this...noone has ever called me a fanboy before...LOL[quote]



I know your not a fanboy! I just used that as an expression. That wasn`t toward you.

Alx

E-Class looks better imo.

SDNR

I edited my post earlier because I do not have the details of the merger - technically DCX is an international company - the directors are Germans and Americans though. I do not have a problem with American design as such, but I do not particularly like the design direction Mercedes is taking...and it just happens to have a distinctly American flavour to it.

Sure, typical German design can be a little sterile and even dull at times, but for me personally, I just prefer the traditional Teutonic style.

Luwilira pointed out the Rolls-Royce interior - the Rolls-Royce Phantom is an intriguing mixture of genuine high-cultured, hand-crafted luxury, and state-of-the-art technology - only Pagani, Ferrari and Spyker share this rare quality.