dOmInIX

I'm thinking of buying this camera in next few weeks. What do you guys think, is it a good buy? I've read and heard many positive things about it, it is probably the best camera to go for from point&shoot right now. And I think it's time for me to get a DSLR.
Also, I thought about the future. I don't want to become pro in photography, but it certainly is a thing that interests me. I have time for it so, why not. I think I won't get bored with it.

Kit lense isn't really something but it will be enough for some time, because other lenses are very expensive, and I'm still an amateur...





*I'd appreciate every constructive comment! Thank you.

Michael

Almost all kit lenses are not going to be the best glass, it is just the way it is. The camera itself is great, nevertheless you have the Nikon D80 to consider. The 18-135mm kit lense that comes with that camera is very sharp and good. Again, not the best that Nikon makes but it just goes with what you pay for. I would consider the D80. It is a great camera, and many prefer it over the 400D. But, there are also many that prefer the 400D. It is up to you. Have you used Canon before? Do you like the Canon ergonomics? I don't, but maybe you do. I think you saying that it is the best camera to go from point &shoot too is incorrect and is an area of contention among many. So, that is debatable.

You bring up a good point about sticking with it and going professional, if you decide to. Once you purchase a brand, many people stick with it. One of the hardest things to do is invest so much on lenses and equipment for one particular brand and then not be happy. So, when you decide what to go with, remember that you will be more than likely buying glass that will support your hobby for a very long time.

The 10.1 mega pixel sensor on the 400D is a great sensor. I have read that the camera does have a tendency to underexpose. So, be ready for that. Other than that, if you want to take the plunge go for it.

You can read the review for the 400D here at dpreview.com: - ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

The Nikon D80: - ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

I think the D80 does better, but only by a little bit.

Once again, I urge you to consider other cameras before you just plunge into the Canon. The brand and camera are great, and you won't go wrong, but you can also consider other excellent options. Either way, good luck with your choice and happy shooting.

Lenses:

Another thing that should be noted is the importance of good glass, i.e., lenses. Some cameras might not be all that, but the glass is superb and brings out one of the best pictures you can see. The Canon kit is disappointing from what I have read, and what I have seen myself. So, if you can just purchase the body, if that is what you end up doing, and then take the plunge on excellent glass, you will be extremely happy.

Canon 400D pros:

Excellent resolution, lots of detail, not a leap from eight mega pixels, but certainly from six
Good color with selectable PictureStyles for different subject types
Good dynamic range (more than peers) with soft roll-off of highlights
'Integrated Cleaning System' designed to keep dust at bay
Widest range of image parameter adjustments among its peers
Low noise throughout the sensitivity range, noise reduction maintains detail well
Good in-camera image processing, resolution advantage shooting RAW is slight
Larger, brighter and more detailed LCD monitor
Re-designed user interface a great improvement over the EOS 350D
On-screen setting adjustment (ISO, WB, etc.) surprisingly quick and easy to use
Updated nine point AF system, proved fast, accurate and still good in low light
Very fast off to shot time (virtually instant), slightly slower if you want to read screen
Numerous small bug fixes improve usability
Magnification available in record review (although requires two button press)
Small and light but hand grip is still too small, can be uncomfortable for large hands
Excellent supplied software bundle, two RAW conversion options
Remote capture software included for computer controlled shooting
Unique JUMP mode in playback (by date, 10 or 100 images)
Value for money

Cons:

Kit lens disappointing, better to buy body only and spend more on a good lens
Sporadic continuous shooting once buffer is full
Occasional under-exposure issue with Evaluative metering
Average automatic white balance performance, still very poor under incandescent light
ISO, WB, Metering mode etc. not displayed on viewfinder status bar during change
Flash must be raised for AF assist
No Kelvin white balance selection in-camera
No spot metering
No mass storage device USB driver, poor WIA transfer rates (and awkward to use)
Opening the CF compartment door shuts camera down, loses any buffered images
Small viewfinder view



Nikon D80 pros:

Excellent resolution, lots of detail, not a leap from eight megapixels, but certainly from six
Excellent build quality, tight shut lines, quality materials
Instant power on, very responsive, very short black-out time, very fast media write
Fast, accurate auto focus (11 area sensor, similar to the D200)
Auto-focus assist lamp rather than requiring flash to be raised
Vibrant color response, similar hues to other digital SLR's
Reliable, sophisticated, if sometimes a little conservative matrix metering system
Control over high sensitivity noise reduction
Very large and bright viewfinder view with short black-out (quoted as 160 ms)
Extremely useful, customizable automatic sensitivity (ISO)
Easy to use playback / delete combination
Very attractive and intuitive menu system
Highly customizable, lots of camera and feature control
Status LCD panel on top of camera (we hate to see these go)
Unlimited continuous shooting in JPEG mode (with a reasonably fast card)
Good SD card throughput and USB 2.0 transfer speed
In-camera retouching features including D-Lighting and Red-eye reduction
Built-in wireless flash commander
Support for SD and SDHC cards
Good battery life, battery design provides detailed information to camera
Good large LCD monitor with wide viewing angles and removable protective cover
Dedicated help button provides in-menu assistance
Optional battery / portrait grip
Programmable FUNC hard button

Cons:

High sensitivity (ISO) noise levels higher than Canon EOS 400D
Noise reduction can be intrusive, although adjustable, more grain-like appearance
Default sharpness level perhaps still a little conservative
Disappointing automatic white balance performance in incandescent light
No RAW adjustment with supplied PictureProject, only simple conversion
Limited image parameter adjustment (especially for color saturation)
Slower maximum shutter speed (1/4000 vs 1/8000 sec) compared to D70/D70s
Price difference to the competition

source: dpreview.com

Zonda

It is indeed a great camera and a very good buy.
Michael brought up alot of good points which are worth reading and testing the two out will definitely help your decision.

As Mike said, the 400D is very small compared to the D80 and can be uncomfortable in big hands. But a battery grip sorts that out and you get controls for vertical shooting too which is great.

Another valid point is the standard 18-55 lens which compared to other Canon lenses is very bad. Nikon standard lenses are generally better. So if you just plan to stick with your camera and never upgrade, the D80 is the better buy.
But if you do plan on getting more lenses and other accessories in the future I think Canon is the better way. First off, the 400D is much cheaper(in Sweden at least) which leaves you more money left. Which is good because the Canon lens range is better than Nikon's.

dOmInIX

Wow, Mike thank you for everything you wrote.

I have used both Canon (EOS 300D, Digital Ixus 750) and Nikon (Coolpix) before. And yes, I have thought about other cameras as well, especially Nikon D70s.

As I already said, I don't know much about lenses, therefore I don't even know which one would I'd like to get and how much it costs. Maybe you can recommend something? I mostly take shots of landscapes, beach, cars...

I'm not sure if I should spend more money on Nikon (D70s/D80) or less on 400D and then after some time buy some nice lenses..
Which ever I take, I'm sure it will be a big improvement from what I have now.

dOmInIX

It's the same overhere, EOS is much cheaper...Thanks for help!

Germaniac

Canon's range of lenses is pretty much unbeatable, with I think somewhere in the vicinity of over 50 lenses. I'm an unabashed fan, I've had a lot of use with the 20D (magnesium alloy body but otherwise very similar to 350d/400d), as well as the 400d, and find them such a workable camera to use... incredibly responsive, straightforward and logical layout, all that. The only annoying thing I found with the 400d (compared to the more expensive 20d) was its scroll function: it tends to lag when scrolling through lots of photos, as opposed to the 20/30d which has an excellent lag-free scroll wheel. This of course isn't too much of an issue with the 'jump' function.

As far as image quality goes, you've heard it all before, but I can definitely attest to its ability. I recently was shooting at a live evening cafe performance in very poor lighting, with the two (very basic) standard lens kit lenses. I shot at 1600 iso, and was very impressed with the results - at the end of the day the 400d is at a VERY low price point and the image quality you're getting for the money is hard to beat.


My ideal (and quite affordable) set up would be this:
- Black 400d body (around AU$1000)
-EF 50mm f/1.4 USM lens(rrp AU$600)
- EF 70-200mm f/4L USM lens (rrp AU$1300)

This setup, while comparibly very affordable, gives you two great and very useable lenses; the 50mm great for portaits and the like, and the 70-200mm a supurb telephoto. Obviously alot of people would opt for a 30-85mm lens or the like as it gives much more flexibility than the 50mm; however I've spent a lot of time with a standard 50mm lens on an old Pentax SLR and I love what it forces you to do creatively as a photographer: you don't become slack and rely soley on zoom

Here's some info on those lenses
- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER
- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

Germaniac

I found the cafe photos I took on my friend's myspace - it was her camera and I haven't yet got a copy of them.

Keep in mind Myspace has reduced them both in size and quality; the originals were much larger and much nicer

All are unedited (apart from the last, duh) and are shot on a 400d at 1600 iso
and (I think) 1/25 shutter









both

dOmInIX

Thank you so much for detailed answer. Those photos look great, especially knowing they are taken with standard 400D.
I've been looking for the ideal lenses...70-200 f/4 seems cool, I don't know about others.
I think I should buy EOS400D + KIT since I'm not spending so much money right now...And after some time to purchase 70-200 or the one I decide to go for. What do you think?
Is standard lens that bad or will it be good for some time?

- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

This lens looks cool:
- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER
Is it ok for my way of shooting??

Zonda

Imo 70-200 is ideal. Can't imagine getting anything else for a first lens after the kit one.

Michael

Well, as stated it is a good buy.

I have the 18-200mm 3.5-5.6 which is excellent, but this is a Nikon camera and lense we are talking about here. I bet Canon has an equivalent.

As far as lenses, the better the lense the better the picture quality. Canon has some fast lenses, one of which I think Nevadajack owns, which is incredibly awesome in sharpness. The 17-55mm 2.8 for Nikon is also incredible and delivers the same quality.